Why was I expelled

Just to clarify some things...

Simon:

Catastrophe wrote:

How was that a treat

Sorry that i don't speak english as good as the rest of you. This was a typo, what i ment was thread.

Catastrophe wrote:

Second...
Thanks Alex for pointing that out...
I still have to find Dit to give him his Cape

With this i understand why you forgot to return Pauline's tobis until Kat told you, and my helmet until i reminded you.

If you can't remember to return something that was given to you 2 days ago how could you remember something that was given months ago...

And Brit:

Brittini wrote:

He had to ASK why he was expelled.

Yes i know he asked, but he already knew why we could possibly expell him, since one of the Jrs contacted him in MSN and told him the situation. This was before we expell him, so he knew why.

Brittini wrote:

But it is possible to get someone's information while being in a trade window

Yes this is possible... If you tell them your info. In all my time playing MS i've heard this many times, it even happened to my sis, so i was really worried about this. Until i did some research, and find out this type of hack is almost immposible in the game, most time ppl get hacked this way because they give out their info to someone they don't know, because this person told them that he would give them free NX via PayPal. This is what happened to my sis.

Brittini wrote:

If you can get someone's password, it's actually quite easy to hack someone with all the pin crackers out now.

2 things to say in this. If someone gets you password, first they can use the pin reset option, but for this you also have to know the original user E-Mail, so you can change it, so that's another info you need to know.

And i'm sorry to tell you but our Jrs did research about pin crackers, and guess what... Until now there is no pin cracker for MS v0.51, they have all being patched 2 weeks ago.

Brittini wrote:

BTW, there are plenty of hackers that don't take any items other than mesos so you can't assume everything would have been taken.

It was Simon himself the one who said he lost ALL items everytime he was hacked. That's why the guildmated have helped him everytime.



Hope this help you all.

~Tomichiwar~

Sorry Tom. Not meaning to bring up anymore stuff...or whatever...but I told him AFTER he was expelled. When he logged on minutes after leaving MSN (I know because I logged on too) he was already removed from the guild.

Brittini wrote:

He had to ASK why he was expelled.

Tom Wrote:
Yes i know he asked, but he already knew why we could possibly expell him, since one of the Jrs contacted him in MSN and told him the situation. This was before we expell him, so he knew why.


I didnt know why until Dave told me over MSN.
And no one really contacted me over MSN... Except Dave brought it up when I was talking to him

Brittini wrote:

If you can get someone's password, it's actually quite easy to hack someone with all the pin crackers out now.

Tom Wrote:
2 things to say in this. If someone gets you password, first they can use the pin reset option, but for this you also have to know the original user E-Mail, so you can change it, so that's another info you need to know.

And i'm sorry to tell you but our Jrs did research about pin crackers, and guess what... Until now there is no pin cracker for MS v0.51, they have all being patched 2 weeks ago.


Sorry to prove you wrong Tom... But there have been Pin crackers way before Patch 0.51
Just they were never so public, or free

Brittini wrote:

BTW, there are plenty of hackers that don't take any items other than mesos so you can't assume everything would have been taken.

Tom Wrote:
It was Simon himself the one who said he lost ALL items everytime he was hacked. That's why the guildmated have helped him everytime.


Sorry to prove wrong again Tom, But...
I never said I lost All my items...
I just had junk left over
(And some how, Daves Piggy Book)


With all said...
Drop the subject now
Im gone, nothing more to worry about -.-

However...
Pauline Said:
If anyone can show us how those 'TRADE HACKS/CHAT HACKS' work besides some ungrounded 'rumors', please, by all means list them here.
If you would like, i'll post the hack sites I can find...
(Not that Im a hacker)
And some hacks are actually harder to find then others
(And you need to pay for some)

I feel as though I'm the only one that's not going crazy over this...>.>

I didn't know the time that Simon got expelled, all I knew was that he was already removed by the time we logged on, which led me to believe that he was probably removed some time before, as odds were good enough to support my theory. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Okay. I just want to clarify. The things I typed about the hacking
stuff was meant as a general warning. I wasn't trying to connect this
to Simon's situation since it looks like I might have been trade window
hacked since I know I never gave out my personal information since I =
a uber paranoid person. lol The situation was very fishy, hence why I
was suspicious. I wasn't keylogged since I have like every spyware and
adware program you imagine and I spoke to my computer savvy friends to
help me check...since I was paranoid. lol.

If there is no trade window hack, then there is a "You're going to have 4mil mesos disappear" glitch. lol I've looked into it, and most people think it's a slowly being hacked predicament. :O

With the pin crackers, just because it was patched doesn't mean there won't be more unfortunately. :/

As I said before...
I'll give you the sites with the hacking stuff on them

Hacker Forum: (Peop[le had hacks that work)
http://www.thetechguide.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31241&st=20

Hack Download Site:
http://www.pirateaccess.com/Maplestory-Trade-Hack-full-download-torrent-crack-serial-rapidshare-megaupload.html

There is more to a hacker then you know -.-
They do for fun... And they dont give a (Censored) about what happens.
And if hacking was as easy as finding the damm programs, drivers and such...
Everyone would be hacking -.-

Catastrophe wrote:

Second... Thanks Alex for pointing that out... I still have to find Dit to give him his Cape

Tom:
With this i understand why you forgot to return Pauline's tobis until Kat told you, and my helmet until i reminded you.

If you can't remember to return something that was given to you 2 days ago how could you remember something that was given months ago...

Well actually I just didnt really get a chance to talk to him because i was lmpqing so it isnt his fault but more mine cuz i didnt no this was going on so i just told him to sell it, but i could see why people thought he forgot. But i just think it was more of a lack of me not knowing about all this, then him forgetting but i see why he was kicked and believe that all the jr.s made the right decision even though i thought he was a good guy.

Dit =P

Dit Said:
Well actually I just didnt really get a chance to talk to him because i was lmpqing so it isnt his fault but more mine cuz i didnt no this was going on so i just told him to sell it, but i could see why people thought he forgot. But i just think it was more of a lack of me not knowing about all this, then him forgetting but i see why he was kicked and believe that all the jr.s made the right decision even though i thought he was a good guy.


What do mean "thought he was a good guy" -.-
And your getting your cape back if you want it or not -.-

Catastrophe wrote:

As I said before...
I'll give you the sites with the hacking stuff on them

Hacker Forum: (Peop[le had hacks that work)
http://www.thetechguide.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=31241&st=20

Hack Download Site:
http://www.pirateaccess.com/Maplestory-Trade-Hack-full-download-torrent-crack-serial-rapidshare-megaupload.html

There is more to a hacker then you know -.-
They do for fun... And they dont give a (Censored) about what happens.
And if hacking was as easy as finding the damm programs, drivers and such...
Everyone would be hacking -.-

First link leads to an almost 2 years old post about maple story hacks, and we all know Nexon upgrades his GG all the time.

And the secont link, well i tried to sign up to learn of it... Guess what... It leads you to a porn site subscription. If these are your proves Simon, i'm still not believeing you story... Sorry.

I didnt bother subscribing for risk of a keylogger -.-
(Should have said that sooner)

But give me a while to find the site again
(Every bit of detail on each Hack program avalible for any online game)

Ok, I believe that this is going way way way out of hand. I'm with Dave, let's all just calm down and try to get heads and tails of this.

This is what I understand so far (not my opinions but what i think is happening based on what i have read in this thread):

Most of the JR's are accusing Simon of lieing multiple times about being hacked

Simon says (lol Simon says) that he wasn't

Most JR's give the facts that say that Simon must be very lucky for a hacker to have done what he did (and for you to have gotten your items back Simon)

People begin insulting each other and acting like five-year-old's

Examples:

1) OMG I AM TALKING IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR LIES SIMON U ARE OUT OF THE GUILD LEAVE IT AT THAT GIVE ME PROOF OF HACKS AND LETS KEEP INSULTING EACH OTHER UNTIL I GO HOARSE JUST FROM TYPING!!!

Come on guys, at least use our inside voices please.

2) Lol you said treat instead of 'thread' ill make fun of you while we are in the heat of an arguement!!

Let's please try to not make each other more mad/confused...

3) Give us the evidence of hacks blah blah blah those are old blah blah blah nexon updates GG blah blah blah

Give it a rest everyone knows that hacks exist so let's please try not to look for evidence that doesn't really matter. Simon, honestly, i have never heard of a hack where you don't have to give out your personal info. in order for someone to get on your account. (just saying it's never happened to me)

4) Blah blah blah.... No!!! Blah blah blah..... YES!! Blah blah blah....

There are two sides to every story, please everyone lets try to respect them.

5) New enemy much?

Thank you Aaron, Simon, it was unnecessary that you said you were making a new guild. it just fired people up. :0

All in all, let's please just tone this thread down and try to make sense of things. hopefully we can get it all figured out soon.. or this will be very very bad for the entire guild.


Note: This post only edited to remove typos.

I posted this under Jr conner so most of you guys wont see it. Here is my post( I eddited some names out):

Why we have to inform every member when they got expelled from our guild? Do we have to do this? If we dont have this forum, do we have this discussion? If this is other guild, the guild master or Jr master just remove Simon and thats it. There will no talk lingering.

Why Simon got pampered here? Why us Jrs have this argurment over him? Why dont we have this over Dramen, Kev and many other?

Again DO WE HAVE TO INFORM TO EVERY MEMBER WHEN THEY ABOUT TO BE EXPELLED?

WHY? WHY ? WHY ?

Catastrophe wrote:

I didnt bother subscribing for risk of a keylogger -.-
(Should have said that sooner)

But give me a while to find the site again
(Every bit of detail on each Hack program avalible for any online game)

OMG......last week YOU told me in GUILD CHAT that my info I got was outdated. You got the most updated hacker tools info out there. The way you talked about hacking tools make me( and all of us who was on on that day) felt so noob.

You need to back it up boy. You talk so much but got nothing. Nice try Simon.

Kat... you're adding brush to the fire....... :0 I advise you to stop....


Edit:

Oh and kat you are WAY too pro for you to even consider yourself remotely close to a noob

Please, we are not disputing the fact that Simon got hacked, but rather the circumstances. Simon says that he got hacked and I would like to believe that until people can prove other wise. We expelled him because we think he was exploiting guildies for personal gain. But we are all to blame. The guild members gave the donations out of free will so they gave their items knowing that they were never to see it again. Morally it is wrong to exploit kindness but they never had to donate. (sorry if I feel like i'm attacking people)

I would like to see this resolved and cease the finger pointing. We all had some error in our judgements and I would like to see this issue resolved as soon as possible. Simon I would like to personally talk to you about this so you can PM me or talk with me ingame if you see me. I don't have a lot of information since I wasn't online but I would like to investigate this and put an end to the finger pointing and the fighting. I need everyone's side of the story.

I want to walk out of this situation on good terms. I'll talk to people and get the whole story.

Simon, you never onced seemed like a bad person and I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. I hate the thought of losing a friend. You should do your best to return the items or meso as fast as you are able and hopefully clear this up.

Sorry if that seems harsh or something but I needed to give my opinion.

PS: I hate to kick you when you're down, but you owe me 5 mil still Simon. >.<

I never thought that I insulted anyone, so I'm sorry if I did. I also don't feel like I really attacked anyone either, but once again, I'm sorry if anyone felt that way. I'm not sure if any of those comments were aimed towards me, but I just want to make sure anyway.

Once again, I wasn't adding my comments about the hacks/hacking to support anyone's sides. I was just saying as a general warning because I have heard/possibly experienced some of them. I apologize for that confusion. I probably should have moved them over to the "hacking" post.

Personally, I think that it's just respectful to inform someone why he/she was expelled. I know I would hate to be in a confused state after getting my little "You have been expelled. kthxbai" note. Maybe it can be a "This is why you were expelled. *insert reason* kthxbai" whisp. lol

Whenever I see anyone leave, I'm always curious as to why. When I see someone EXPELLED, then I'm even more curious since something must have happened to cause such an action. The only reason why I think that letting the members of the guild know WHY people are expelled is so that they can know what can result in their expulsion. Does that make sense? :/ Obviously the details wouldn't need to be known, but a general idea is never bad. I was curious as to the other recent explusions, but I guess I was just too afraid to speak up. Ironically, this situation has made me more comfortable with talking within the guild. >> WHO THOUGHT YOU COULD STILL BE SHY IN A GAME!?!?! lol. BTW, I think this information would just be given to those that ASK for it.

I don't know. Maybe my age is just showing here... >>;;;

OK, here is my suggestion to help get the guild straight. You need to decide, and then stick to your decision no matter what may happen in the short term, are you going to be a Social Guild (guild of friends, albeit active friends even if they spend majority of their time sitting around chatting and hanging out) or if you are going to be a Competitive Guild.

EDIT: *Quote has been removed per the request of a JR, of which I understand the reasoning and am willing to comply*
(Basically it was about JRs having to explain their actions when they do something, like expel a guild member)

This is the mindset of a Competitive Guild. They are only interesting in having Strong, Active members in the guild (for GPQs, Zruns, etc, etc).
A Competitive Guild usually has certain rules set up that you must follow (be on everyday / every week; lvl at least once a week, if below this lvl, once every 2 weeks if above that lvl; etc, etc) and if you fail to follow the rules you may and most likely will be immediately expelled from the guild, no questions asked, no warning. Also, the Ldr/JRs can at anytime expel ppl without warning and explanation (except maybe to the Ldr/other JRs), even if it was just because he/she didn’t like the person or wanted one of his/her friends in the guild instead of the person expelled.
Also, new rules and any changes to existing rules are effective immediately regardless of any consequences it may mean to guild members (ie, minimum lvl requirement raised, may mean some existing guild members are expelled for not meeting that minimum requirement).
The main concern for the Competitive Guild is meeting a specific goal (being ranked #1, winning NX guild contests, etc) or for Boss runs/parties (Zruns, Pap, Pianus, etc). Members usually are high lvl are mostly together for the status/name of the guild or simply for the ability to participate in the Boss runs/parties (most do not communicate outside of MS, except maybe to schedule a Boss run/party).

A Social Guild is more like a 1950's small town community where ppl openly communicate with each other, are willing to help each other out whenever they can or asked upon, and there are rules that must be followed but they are based and enforced more on a moral/ethical basis, meaning bad behavior is not tolerated, but we will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you about the situation and give you a chance to explain. In terms of MS, the JRs will discuss the situation and determine the appropriate punishment, and because we are a tight-knit guild (community), the JRs will inform the guild (community) of the reasons behind the decision because we respect our friends (guildies) and want them to understand we are fair and unbiased (the 'inform' part could be a forum topic, a guild BBS, simply answering in guild chat when asked, or even a simple whisper to the person asking what happened, JRs can use their discretion based upon the situation).
Also, the JRs should try to give ample warning/grace period for any MAJOR changes or new rules for the guild because they want to give the guild members a chance to hear/read about the new changes or rules and then ask questions.
The main concern for the Social Guild is keeping the guild together and funded (for events, GPQs, and special circumstances). Members are together in friendship (and often are friends/relatives in RL and/or communicate to one another outside of MS). EDIT: or during the game in the case of Vent (?) :D

Now it is possible to have it both ways, but with a Guild of 90+ members, it is VERY, VERY difficult.

SIDE NOTE: Guildies, you should realize that the JRs do meet often and as far as I know, do discuss any MAJOR changes and potential punishments/expulsions BEFORE they are made (and try to have some sort of proof), so do not blame a specific JR when it is implemented, even if it seems like that specific JR seems to be the main one implementing them at a given time (could simply be that JR happens to be on more frequently at that time than the other JRs).